Jun 182010
Many years ago when I was giving some talks in Thailand, there was a sad story in the Bangkok Times about a British tourist who had been murdered. I didn’t know the victim, but when my Thai travelling companion had finished reading the article, he turned to me and apologized on behalf of the Thai people for her death.
I was very surprised. Had our positions been reversed and there had been a similar death of a Thai national in the UK, I might have discussed it with him. But it would never have occurred to me to apologise.
Has anyone else run into instances where they have received unexpected apologies? Or perhaps failed to make an apology when one might have been due?
This might not be what you want, but I live with my wife in Dresden, Germany. (She’s from Dresden, I’m from the U.S.) On his first visit here, my father told my wife that he was so impressed with the city that, were he in charge in WWII, he wouldn’t have bombed it. I still think it’s an interesting way to tell someone ‘you have a beautiful city.’
Oh welcome, Toby and thank you for contributing. What an interesting comment from your father! It sounds like an apology and a back-handed compliment all in one.
When I was biking around, an Italian hitchhiker was killed near the city where I used to live. It was in all the papers.
People didn’t exactly apologize for it, but they took the story to be a reflection of Turkey at large and always warned me to be extra careful as I biked through. They always also hastened to add that “bad things happen in every country”, which is sort of a mantra in Turkey that I’ve always found quite defeatist.
I’ve found that many other cultures identify with the nation much more so than us. We would rarely assume an event reflects us or that we could speak for the nation. Collectivism vs. individualism I guess.
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After 9/11, I had a lot of people in Finland express their condolences and a Muslim man from Iraq who apologized on behalf of the Muslim people. I was quite surprised as well…
Oh interesting, Nick. Yes, that mantra does sound a bit self defeatist, but perhaps also a wise one in some ways – ‘Don’t imagine the grass is greener elsewhere’. And many thanks for your story too Holly. I just checked where Finland falls in Hofstede’s collectivism/ individualism continuum (Nick’s thought). The US and UK are way up at the individualist end and Finland’s pretty middling – between Germany and Austria.
The other thing I find interesting about it is culpability. Did the folks who were apologising to us feel any culpability? Presumably not and it would be rather like us going and saying how sorry we are to relatives at a funeral, without in anyway accepting responsibility for polishing off the deceased?
I’m curious how people around you are commenting the apology of BP CEO Tommy Hayward before Congress. He was up against a lot of rage there, wasn’t he? I’m thinking today about how we express contriteness – is that a word? – especially when we aren’t directly to blame (though that is clearly a matter for debate in the world of management!) Do you have any insights into differences and sore spots?
Ha! Gosh Anne, if I were Chris, I’d have to award you a bonus point for reading my mind! It was actually the Tony Hayward apology that got me writing about apologies but I wrote too much and thought I’d better split it up!
Watch this space!
Was that a Vicki-apology for not giving Anne a bonus point?
Ha! No, Chris.
Anne, as I’m not Chris, I hereby award you TWO bonus points for reading my mind.
Chris, you get one too for coming up with the idea of bonus points.
This is an interesting issue for me. As an American, I get repeatedly annoyed by individuals who blame me personally for my countries present or past actions.
Interestingly enough, I found this more common in Europe. In the Middle East, people normally make a distinction between the government and the people. People in the ME often don’t identify with or feel as connected to their governments as people in Europe or the US do.
As for “don’t imagine the grass is greener” this is more a defense of national or ethnic pride rather than a reflection of reality. I keep trying to find out where this theme originated from, but no luck so far.
As for culpability, yes they do feel it. My wife cries for the family of a Turk who dies on the news and she is angry when a Turk does something that makes them look bad. Identity is collective here and everything is about reputation. That reputation is held by everyone to some degree. The response of “we did this” is much more common than “they did that.”
My ‘merican husband also comes in for a lot of blame for US activities on trips to the UK, Nick. I’d like to think that it’s all just good hearted teasing and banter, but I don’t think it is.
Directly after 9/11, there was a lot of goodwill towards the US from around the world, of course, sadly squandered by the Bush administration. But what you’ve identified here goes beyond that – collective culpability.
We have to be a little careful here, if we don’t take responsibility for what our elected representatives do in our name we are not really exercising democracy.
Perhaps wee are ALL responsible for EVERYTHING?
The collective responsibility is interesting, especially in a democracy. I would argue that we are all responsible for various government actions, but the degree of responsibility changes.
Also, I think it’s very useful to look at ourselves if we want to point fingers. It’s ok to call out others, but often the people doing it are coming from countries with similar records now or in the recent past and fail to acknowledge that fact.
Even in a democracy we have to come to terms with being in opposition to our government. That delicate balance of accepting authority even as you question it, working on changing things, civilized participation.
Through the two cresting waves of point-blank Anti-Americanism I experienced living abroad, one in the 80s and then again under Bush, I’d get very huffy and defensive when criticism left the realm I considered legitimate and in fact essential to criticise, and moved into the no-go turf of collective dismissal.
The other side of being an American abroad (I’m only saying this because it wasn’t mentioned) is listening for fifteen minutes to people who tell you what a wonderful place the U.S. is. It happens to me maybe twice a year, sometimes three times. So, yeah, I’ll let people complain about Bush, because I have the equally awkward but totally opposite experience of hearing someone tell me how great my country is and ask why I’d ever want to live in Germany.
Something I wanted to throw into the room (without getting on the “we have to take responsibility for our elected officials’ actions” bandwagon) is that, here in Germany, the present generation of Germans is still being taught that they’re at fault for the holocaust. (I don’t know if the teaching is active, but they believe it.) It’s something that’s going to be a problem for me when my son is old enough to go to school here.
As for collectiveness. . . (yeah, not really a word), sure I feel like it’s also MY goal when the U.S. scores a goal in the world cup (which they aren’t doing often enough) and I feel like there are things about me which are ‘American.’ But I wouldn’t feel personally responsible if a crime were committed in the U.S.
On the other hand, I feel like more generalized things–whether I take part of not–from American breakfasts and football to obesity somehow reflect on me, and I’ve alternately stuck up for (the breakfasts) them or apologized (football) for them to my students, depending on where I stand on them.
This turned into a ramble. Feel free to disregard this.
-Toby
Oh, don’t apologise for rambling Tony – delighted to get more thoughts. Thanks very much for coming back and chipping in!
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